Things got heated fast on a recent episode of *The Five* when liberal co-host Jessica Tarlov found herself in a fiery back-and-forth with Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld over one of America’s most explosive topics: racism — and whether the political left has exaggerated the problem for ideological gain.
The sparks started flying after Watters brought up allegations surrounding the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), the left-leaning organization long known for labeling conservative groups as “extremists” while presenting itself as a watchdog against hate.
Recently, Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche reportedly accused the SPLC of quietly funneling money to some of the very radical elements it publicly claims to oppose — allegations that have fueled fresh skepticism from conservatives who have long argued the group profits politically and financially from keeping racial tensions alive.
That opened the door for Watters to make a broader point — one that instantly sent Tarlov into debate mode.
Calling modern racial division in America a “big fat psyop,” Watters argued that everyday Americans generally get along far better than media narratives would suggest.
“People actually love each other,” Watters said, contending that elites and political activists benefit from keeping Americans angry, divided, and suspicious of one another.
Tarlov immediately pushed back, calling the argument “ridiculous” and insisting racism remains a major and dangerous force in American life.
“You literally said psyop,” she snapped at Watters during the exchange, challenging his characterization of race-related narratives in the country.
But Watters insisted she was misrepresenting what he meant — arguing there’s a difference between acknowledging isolated acts of racism and portraying America as systemically consumed by racial hatred.
That’s when Greg Gutfeld jumped into the fray.
Clearly frustrated with the conversation, Gutfeld sarcastically mocked what he viewed as Tarlov’s attempt to use isolated incidents as proof of a sweeping national movement.
“It’s true somewhere!” Gutfeld exclaimed, rolling his eyes as the argument intensified.
Tarlov responded by pointing to high-profile incidents such as the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, insisting that extremist movements are very real and shouldn’t be dismissed.
Gutfeld, however, argued the issue has been dramatically overstated by media and political activists.
Using one of his trademark analogies, he compared the debate to pointing at rare exceptions to prove a broader rule wrong.
“Yes, Jessica,” he said, “I’ll give you — there probably is a bigot somewhere.”
But Gutfeld’s main argument wasn’t that racism no longer exists. Instead, he suggested the political left has exaggerated the scale of the problem to manufacture fear and create political leverage.
He argued that Americans were sold a narrative of an enormous nationwide extremist movement — one he believes was used to demonize conservatives and justify targeting right-leaning figures.
Tarlov pushed back hard, accusing Gutfeld of minimizing the suffering of victims killed in racially motivated attacks, citing tragedies in places like El Paso, Buffalo, and the Tree of Life synagogue shooting.
Gutfeld quickly clarified his position.
“That is not part of the psyop or the false flag!” he shot back, insisting no one on the panel was denying those horrific attacks occurred.
The heated segment quickly went viral online, where viewers flooded social media with reactions — many siding with Watters and Gutfeld.
One commenter wrote, “No one is saying racism doesn’t exist. They’re saying political activists and groups like the SPLC have turned division into an industry.”
Another added bluntly: “You should know when you’ve lost an argument. Doubling down isn’t helping.”
The clash underscored a growing divide in America: whether race relations are genuinely worsening — or whether political institutions and media outlets are amplifying division for power, profit, and political advantage.
On *The Five*, that argument exploded in real time.
